tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post1293651605531514099..comments2023-10-30T08:00:43.585-05:00Comments on Shameless Popery: Does the Eucharist Re-Sacrifice Christ?Joe Heschmeyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-46167584425177444552010-12-31T11:28:23.594-06:002010-12-31T11:28:23.594-06:00Honeycom,
Let's take Jesus at His word, I agr...Honeycom,<br /><br />Let's take Jesus at His word, I agree. I respond to your four points here:<br />http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2010/12/taking-jesus-at-his-word-in-eucharist.html<br /><br />I look forward to your response. In Christ,<br /><br />Joe.Joe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-63491177858689584932010-12-27T18:29:02.162-06:002010-12-27T18:29:02.162-06:00Honeycom,
By your logic, why would we even need t...Honeycom,<br /><br />By your logic, why would we even need to go once? Of course the merits are infinite, but that doesn't mean that their application prevents future sins. <br /><br />Are you of the mindset that since Christ's Sacrifice is eternal, we just need to believe once, for an instance, and then be saved, regardless of all subsequent actions? Because if you're assuming that Once Saved, Always Saved is true, I'd love to have that debate. Simon the Magus in Acts 8 is described as someone who believes and is baptized, but then falls into mortal sin (simony) which threatens his salvation - at the end, Peter's made it clear that Simon may well be going to Hell. And 2 Peter 2 specifically addresses the possibility that some who are ransomed by Christ will turn away from Him and return to the filth of their former ways. <br /><br />In other words, your intellectual theorizing about how Christ's infinite Sacrifice ought to work is clearly and absolutely rebutted by the evidence in Scripture for how it actually does work. Christ's infinite merits don't stop up from sinning, and don't stop us from falling away.<br /><br />Further, Christ tells us to pray for our Daily Bread, and the term used is a neologism that Jerome translated as both "Daily Bread" and "Supersubstantial Bread." It is, in other words, the Eucharist, the Bread Come Down From Heaven. For this reason, both the weekly Sabbath and the daily Manna are foreshadowing.<br /><br />But the Sacrifice of the Mass is something related to, but distinct from, Christ's once for all Sacrifice on the Cross. At the Mass, we offer up Sacrifice to God, and cover ourselves in the Blood of Christ. The first part (our offering up constant sacrifices of ourselves in worship) is totally in keeping with the model laid out in Romans 12:1, Hebrews 13:16, 1 Peter 2:5, etc. The second part is as I explained in this post: not a re-Sacrifice of Christ, but a re-application of the once for all Sacrifice of Christ. That Sacrifice is applied every time someone turns to Christ, and His Merits are credited to us as righteousness through faith.Joe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-57119297213855996862010-03-29T19:03:42.993-05:002010-03-29T19:03:42.993-05:00I just thought about it even more and CARM might b...I just thought about it even more and CARM might be begging the question with this resacrifice so they can say, see, this 'disproves' transubstantiation. From what I have read (not much), transubstantiation is a revelation http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4075.htm, I'm not sure it is provable except if we trust Jesus' words. St. Thomas's proofs of transubstation are from the perfection in the new covenant in relation to the old, but they are still based on revelation. If CARM does not accept the revelation, why even speak of re-sacrifice, other than to try and disprove a Divine Command, which I'm not at this point attributing to malice, I'll just say it may be hopefully vincible ignorance.Ryan Howard (not the baseball player)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07368739451266274017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-73211491060110296912010-03-29T18:43:18.596-05:002010-03-29T18:43:18.596-05:00The problem with CARM's argument seems to be a...The problem with CARM's argument seems to be a misunderstanding of the teaching on transubstantiation. The Eucharist is not a created substance. The Eucharist is body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus. This means the Eucharist is divine substance which is uncreated and to say we re-sacrifice (sacrifice again) the only God the Son ever in existence in the Eucharist implies we reincarnate God the Son or re-create God the Son. Since God the Son was not created, is not created, and never shall be created, we do not speak as though we re-create God and then re-sacrifice God. If you imply reincarnation, when you say to resacrifice (sacrifice again implies reincarnation since you must sacrifice a body in a corporeal world), the argument that we resacrifice still doesn't hold, because Christ is resurrected, meaning his soul was rejoined to his body after his death (wherein his soul separated from his body for 3 days). Since Christ only has one body, he cannot be reincarnated into a different one and therefore, Christ cannot be re-sacrificed in the Eucharist, and the sacrifice is His only Body and Blood. Therefore, it follows that the Holy Sacrifice of Mass is the same sacrifice of God the Son on Calvary and this celebration is making present or re-presenting in our time something Eternal (outside time), i.e. God the Son sacrificing His life on the cross. Going further out on a limb since I've gone to the edge of Greenbow County, Christ being the High priest, i.e. having valid orders in the sense that we think of it, can consecrate a Eucharist. Now, at the last supper since Jesus says the words of Institution, and also because God is not a liar, and God says, "This is my body which WILL be given up for you." and similarly with the cup of wine, God the Son makes present in the past that eternal sacrifice which temporally speaking would happen the next day. I don't even know why I thought about that, but it just seemed cool.<br />In Christ,<br />Ryan<br />PS, if I ever say anything heretical, I'm wrong, not the Church.Ryan Howard (not the baseball player)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07368739451266274017noreply@blogger.com