tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post3379180522597015782..comments2023-10-30T08:00:43.585-05:00Comments on Shameless Popery: Where Does Lent Come From, and Why Do We Celebrate it?Joe Heschmeyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-79629470050316687292012-02-24T10:51:35.115-06:002012-02-24T10:51:35.115-06:00Pope Benedict's invitation to Anglicans to com...Pope Benedict's invitation to Anglicans to come under his authority in 2009, the Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus, was received as a gracious offer by the church as a whole. We are acutely aware of how we are failing Jesus' call to unity, and yet we are working to obey Paul's instructions in Rom 12:18. <br /><br /><br />It has been a great encouragement to me personally to discover the depths in what we commonly acknowledge as the deposit of faith, and to that end I am studying the Catechism and have found this blog a helpful forum to discuss questions raised in your posts when they overlap with questions I have about the Catechism. <br /><br />In his Anglicanorum Coetibus Pope Benedict observed: <br /><b>Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside (the Catholic Church's) visible confines</b><br /><br />and I would venture that the Anglican submission of Tradition to Scripture appears to us to be a key element of sanctification. We allow that the church can err and need pruning like a vine as Jesus taught in John 15:1-3. Although we long for permanence in tradition, like Peter wanting to build tents fitting for sukkot at the transfiguration, Jesus compares his church to a growing body or mustard tree. <br /><br />Dogma is necessary as it represents our clearest vision of God to date and we are to let our light shine. Yet that vision can grow clearer as God unfolds time; Paul compares his growth from childhood to maturity as moving from seeing in a mirror dimly to seeing face to face in 1 Cor 13:9 -12. The full revelation will not happen until our lives end, but there is growth during our earthly lives as individuals and as a church body.<br /><br />As God unrolls the scroll of history, is it possibile that new depths can be seen in Scripture necessitating changes in Tradition? I wonder whether Jesus' instructions to the disciples to bind <i>and</i> loose in the kingdom of Heaven points to the need for development in dogma, just as a garment would need to be altered to fit a growing body.<br /><br />I do trust God to continue to lead the church. I believe that he has given the office of servant-stewardship to Peter, and believe that God intends us to demonstrate visible unity through Eucharistic communion. And so I will keep plugging away at the Catechism and work for unity in Truth. Is everything in the catechism infallible?Margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00594654018627709011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-740287159066998922012-02-24T01:49:17.877-06:002012-02-24T01:49:17.877-06:00Thank you for the article on Lent and the question...Thank you for the article on Lent and the question about ecclesiology.<br /><br />I understand your argument that the observation of the liturgical year presupposes we need a unifying authority, a Magisterium. And Jesus prayed that we may be one.<br /><br />Anglicans do not deny the necessity or authority of Church councils and many do not deny the authority of the successor of Peter. He alone was given the keys, the final say. Where that authority has been exercised in harmony with scripture, such as the observance of Lent and Easter we do comply.<br /><br />But Jesus went on to develop Peter's role: asking him to share the work of binding and loosing with the other disciples, not to lord authority over others, and to feed his flock. The ultimate food is Jesus himself, the bread of life, the Word made Flesh.<br /><br />So, inherent in Peter's stewardship is accountablity to God's Word. <br /><br /><br />I cannot speak for Protestantism as a whole, but in the Anglican tradition we ask three things of the Church in relation to Scripture:<br /><br />to recognize that it can err, just as Peter erred in understanding the significance of Moses and Elijah's appearance at the transfiguration shortly after being given the keys;<br /><br />to limit what is required for Eucharistic communion to what can be proved from Scripture;<br /><br />"neither may (the Church) so expound one place of Scripture, that it be repugnant to another."<br /><br />So we will joyfully celebrate Easter and the liturgical seasons grounded on Biblical events. As our recent discussion of the Immaculate Conception demonstrated we respectfully, but sadly, remain separated.Margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00594654018627709011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-67484682463068093552012-02-23T09:43:39.047-06:002012-02-23T09:43:39.047-06:00Thanks, Rev. Hans!
I appreciate the criticism, to...Thanks, Rev. Hans!<br /><br />I appreciate the criticism, too. For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to say that no Protestants celebrate Lent or Easter on those dates, or in that fashion. <br /><br />I recognize that many Protestants observe Lent and Easter, and I'm sure that some of these are aware that they do so because these are the customs established by the early papacy and Church Councils.<br /><br />But here, it seems (at least to me, as an outsider), that they do so because they happen to like a particular pope, Council, or custom. But these personal preferences can't create a coherent mechanism to establish any unified date for Easter, or a particular time for Lent, precisely because they're inherently personal. Others may not share this attraction to the pope, Council, or customs in question.<br /><br />Put another way, as a Catholic, I could say, "You need to follow this liturgical practice, because the Church said so in an authoritative manner." That is, it's not just a custom I happen to like, but a practice binding on my conscience as a Catholic. In contrast, you just say that "Martin Luther did not <i>completely</i> reject <i>all</i> church councils and <i>all</i> popes." Well, certainly, Luther might have agreed with Pope Victor on the date of Lent, but what if his neighbor was sympathetic to Quartodecimanism? Both views can be traced to the second century, so on what basis should one triumph over the other?<br /><br />I'm glad that there are a growing number of Protestants who take Lent and Easter seriously, and I'm glad that there are a growing number that openly point to the early Church in defense of these practices. I think that this is an important step towards Christian unity. But the absence of any Body within Protestantism capable of behaving in the way that the early Church behaved on these issues troubles me. As always, I'm open to correction: if you can explain the basis on which Protestants <i>need</i> to have Lent and Easter (and in the manner laid out by Victor and First Nicea), I'd like to hear it.<br /><br />I.X.,<br /><br />JoeJoe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-11050332038869158282012-02-23T09:22:16.927-06:002012-02-23T09:22:16.927-06:00This was a great article! It really creates a gre...This was a great article! It really creates a great defense for the Roman Catholic tradition. Then you go and say "Sadly, Protestantism, in rejecting the authority of both Church Councils and the papacy, is left without a coherent mechanism to establish any unified date for Easter, or to establish any particular length of time for Lent. " I was with you until that line in the conclusion. Please be careful in painting with wide strokes when talking about Protestants. Martin Luther did not completely reject all church councils and all popes. As a Protestant, the period we are talking about is actually shared history. In fact, I took my Church History I course in seminary from the Jesuits (JSTB) because it is a source of common ground. Lent, Easter, and the other parts of the liturgical year are part of our history as Christians. I know that it is tempting to use a broad use of "Protestants" because there are churches that deny parts or all of church history. These "Protestants" are ignorant. <br /><br />In short, thank you again for a great article. I am sorry for the ignorant Protest-ants that try to deny Christian history.Rev. Dark Hanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12380701786666466708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-92233226319901178072012-02-22T18:33:44.171-06:002012-02-22T18:33:44.171-06:00Thank you for this post! This is just what I neede...Thank you for this post! This is just what I needed after I read an article earlier today entitled "Christians Tailor Lent Outside Catholic Traditions." It seems in this article, as well as in your critique of the one written by Mr. Kimberley, that Protestants definitely see the value in celebrating Lent. And they even want to participate in it to some extent, but they do not want to acknowledge EXACTLY where it comes from. I am, however, encouraged by your conclusion, and I hope that more and more of our separated brethren will continue to explore and investigate these matters, all the way home to Mother Church.Chris Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796791414627242637noreply@blogger.com