tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post4299748683186404853..comments2023-10-30T08:00:43.585-05:00Comments on Shameless Popery: A Catholic Reply to “How to Suck At Your Religion”Joe Heschmeyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comBlogger1041125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-89273357409860353712015-01-23T05:51:01.284-06:002015-01-23T05:51:01.284-06:00I am an Atheist, although I would say that I am a ...I am an Atheist, although I would say that I am a Christian Atheist; insomuch as I am socio-culturally conditioned to feel at ease with Christian architecture and the trappings of faith. I felt no issue swearing an oath to the Queen before god, nor do I have an issue singing that the afore-mentioned god save our Queen. But I don't believe, I am not offering an alternative, nor am I out to prove the improbability of religion, rather I believe in science and reason. The church plays a vital part in society and Christianity in particular is an essential bulwark against the more aggressive monotheistic religions. I found the cartoon exceptionally funny, and to be honest if the church wants to remain relevant and gain - rather than shed - followers, you ought to learn to laugh at yourselves and accept that you were not always so benign. If you are right, surely you need not defend yourselves, in fact I would advise against it, hearing people trundle out the old 'straw man' refrain in the defence of a belief system that based upon nothing tangible just evokes a never ending cycle of argument. Rise above it and keep up your good work... just keep it away from me!Nullus Aequumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650693913096662854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-5146351121231796312015-01-12T05:59:48.136-06:002015-01-12T05:59:48.136-06:00I'm not gonna get into beliefs as a non-cathol...I'm not gonna get into beliefs as a non-catholic, although I grew up around many many catholics. The RC church in my area was pretty damn big for Long Island, the Temple.... not so big! <br /><br />*The only point which I'd like to articulate is the context of the point he's making. <br />*The vehicle was a comic, so it should be approached light heartedly.<br />*He was using colloquial language and stereotyping religions for a reason...<br /><br />It wasn't a serious indictment of religion at all.... It was explaining how people outside of the religion might see your views...that was just one of the two points - but here comes the main point:<br />If you're using religion to impose your will and beliefs on others, you suck at religion<br />BUT if you use it because it makes you a better person. If your belief in God makes you connect with other people better, makes you charitable, makes you turn the other cheek, keeps you from straying from your spouse, makes you humble and respectful, then it's good! Keep on doing it! Just don't impose your views on others or talk in detail about it. If you say, I'm a devout Catholic, most people have a decently accurate view of who are what your beliefs are. I'm sure that there are plenty of misconceptions, but every religion has those. But throwing verse at a non believer is kinda like me playing gangster rap at your church.... no it doesn't actually hurt anyone, but it's still offensive and disrespectful to the beliefs of those being forced to hear something they don't want to<br /><br />Nobody wants to eat bitter herbs or starve for 24 hours, but us Jews do it. I never complain or talk about it because people don't like hearing religion.... most people know what they believe.<br /><br /> The ones who don't are often just looking for something to believe in. I've seen religion save people from absolute self-destruction or to rebuild their lives after self-destruction, but I have seen self-help forums do that, and I have seen psychology and philosophy do that. I've also even seen the military do that. <br /><br /> <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056008654737663173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-7026086796736785392015-01-12T05:06:47.171-06:002015-01-12T05:06:47.171-06:00me too and Im a jewme too and Im a jewAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06056008654737663173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-18466319955302106592015-01-11T12:21:01.064-06:002015-01-11T12:21:01.064-06:00Waaah... A Catholic is butthurt at some religious ...Waaah... A Catholic is butthurt at some religious criticism. What else is new? <br /><br />BTW... Keep your beliefs away from me AND my body.Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655112212861835384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-42962635748089819142015-01-10T23:28:51.614-06:002015-01-10T23:28:51.614-06:00I doubt the truth of you being a follower of Chris...I doubt the truth of you being a follower of Christianity because you have called it christian-ism.Fetchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662237832505487538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-12016744951074184652015-01-10T11:37:13.592-06:002015-01-10T11:37:13.592-06:00If you believe hell to be a real place, and that p...If you believe hell to be a real place, and that people can go there if they don't worship the right god, believe the right doctrines, honor the correct holy book, or whatever other "crimes" you allege them to have committed, then you have to admit that you also believe there are people there right now--perhaps even people you once knew and loved. In fact, Catholics and Protestants alike have always been fond of declaring that certain people are going to hell: homosexuals, prostitutes, rich people, illegal immigrants, anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus, fornicators, Muslims, etc. The whole point of religion is that those who believe in it are in on some big-time, secret wisdom that the rest of the world does not possess, wisdom that will allow THEM to attain the glories of heaven while those not in the know will be sent to hell, purgatory, or be snuffed out forever (depending on which version you grew up with and/or your favorite preacher taught you). It produces an us-vs.-them mentality that does nothing to aid social progress or make the world a better, more cooperative place. Frankly, if the people who claim they are going to heaven actually all end up there, then it must be every bit as bad as hell, and no better than living right here on Earth.Elvee Kayehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09062863555965835644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-27150625000501272852015-01-10T11:25:20.618-06:002015-01-10T11:25:20.618-06:00Don't you worry. You pray for us. We'll th...Don't you worry. You pray for us. We'll think for you.<br /><br />Thanks, and regards-Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11100998825475462410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-14500120860543967612015-01-10T11:24:45.028-06:002015-01-10T11:24:45.028-06:00Right on.Right on.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11100998825475462410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-55929678531608634682015-01-10T09:28:22.421-06:002015-01-10T09:28:22.421-06:00https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-...https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10891941_10152934387921488_1155109764233286244_n.jpg?oh=819a79f40a88a6967e008578d125ca28&oe=553AFC62&__gda__=1428345655_113ecb3975c915b7a8b9aa9df1aa00b1The real Unskinnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03646567892985858017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-56899651841740508682015-01-10T08:29:15.187-06:002015-01-10T08:29:15.187-06:00if ur religious then ur a lunatic end of... sort y...if ur religious then ur a lunatic end of... sort your heads out you don't deserve to use my oxygen upAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11229370598085970634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-56538347189611423222015-01-10T03:05:31.706-06:002015-01-10T03:05:31.706-06:00i'm sorry to say, this reaction to the comic i...i'm sorry to say, this reaction to the comic is just another confirmation of the narrow minded (by lack of a better word) views of most religious people. belief is almost impossible to explain to a non-believer as it's almost impossible for (certain) believers to understand non-believers can have morals and ethics and can enjoy life without a deity. you accuse a comic by it's informative properties(?), yet your comment to it is as one-sided as can be.AlbertoVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11491243309741631541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-90644774570052356732015-01-09T16:23:41.118-06:002015-01-09T16:23:41.118-06:00The Oatmeal is "anti-Catholic"?
That...The Oatmeal is "anti-Catholic"?<br /><br />That's pretty stupid. It's also pretty stupid to pick the one religion you subscribe to out of the huge number of religions pilloried in the comic and expect to be taken seriously. <br /><br />Of course, if you're preaching to the converted, you can do what you like. The Oatmeal seems to recognise some need to appeal to people who might hold different views about things.captain sexulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08748691645879943126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-23447665928209443902015-01-09T15:36:53.464-06:002015-01-09T15:36:53.464-06:00Don't take yourself too seriously. Catholicis...Don't take yourself too seriously. Catholicism isn't any more bat guano crazy than any other religion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07044403362150903008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-73990883371463522492015-01-09T04:41:59.434-06:002015-01-09T04:41:59.434-06:00This is funny. I started reading and it made no re...This is funny. I started reading and it made no real response to the Oatmeal cartoon at all. Poor, very poor article.<br /><br />As an atheist myself and ex-Christian the cartoon is merely mocking the idiocies of religions around the world. I struggled with it first but it just becomes obvious when you exit from people spouting their religious views all the time and give yourself a chance to think about it rationally.<br /><br />Peace to you all, may you all live in happiness.KC123https://www.blogger.com/profile/08457632665435422634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-18956045289191868542015-01-08T18:39:57.675-06:002015-01-08T18:39:57.675-06:00Unknown - no. He didn't equate the two. But he...Unknown - no. He didn't equate the two. But he's comparing the truth of historical reports. The disparate historical records of Jesus of Nazareth all involve accounts of the resurrection so I think it's fair to include that in the example. Let's just say it DID happen... it would be a miracle, right, and prove the existence of God. That's not illogical though. The whole point is that it would have been an isolated act of God. And to consider if THAT could have actually happened we can use the historixal records... look at the explanatory power and scope of the evidence, the separate accounts, etc. What is the best explanation? Just think about it for yourself.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10866733809886823739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-35193588811566406612015-01-08T18:29:32.302-06:002015-01-08T18:29:32.302-06:00Ben, those are all really terrible arguments. Noth...Ben, those are all really terrible arguments. Nothing personal, honestly, but you really should consider looking into this for yourself - visit reasonablefaith.org, watch a few debates on youtube etc. Some Christians believe blindly, but that's not the majority. People just misunderstand "faith" to think it means believing unconditionally and without any supporting evidence. There is shitloads of evidence for theism and Christianity. Does the multitude of religious beliefs mean there is no correct one? That there is no God, even if those beliefs are wrong? Of course not; what's important is to look at and evaluate the historicity for Christianity, the same as you would for any purported event in history.<br /><br />It also astounds me how many people still do not understand what atheism actually is. It is a belief. It's the affirmative belief that there is no God. It's not a 'lack of' belief. That's agnosticism. My cat doesn't believe in God, but he's not an atheist...Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10866733809886823739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-29208084201739159762015-01-08T18:16:42.625-06:002015-01-08T18:16:42.625-06:00Ding ding ding! Originality! Good one Corey, you&#...Ding ding ding! Originality! Good one Corey, you'll go far.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10866733809886823739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-37907934574773192452015-01-08T18:14:58.120-06:002015-01-08T18:14:58.120-06:00The use of 'strawmen argument' is perfectl...The use of 'strawmen argument' is perfectly valid here. The oatmeal thing ridicules views that aren't held. Okay? As for "religion isn't meant to be logical"... how do you draw that conclusion? If you take your education from things like the oatmeal then maybe you'll have that impression. I love him by the way, I just don't buy his moral highground and ridicule as an atheist while telling people with a religious belief to back off and keep their mouths shut.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10866733809886823739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-67782125938528243492015-01-08T17:28:10.410-06:002015-01-08T17:28:10.410-06:00@ben
Very good post.
This:
”The best argument I...@ben<br /><br />Very good post.<br /><br />This:<br /><br />”The best argument I know "against" the delusional religious beliefs of the world is that there are so many of them. The idea that one of them is right and the others are wrong seems laughably arrogant and completely illogical.”<br /><br />Especially when the – at the core – the only ”argument” you have that your particular faith is true is… faith. And I think we all know faith isn't a very good argument – it's just arbitrary. So faith vs. faith? Good luck. ;)a Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08958986747914337494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-40078892996769547672015-01-08T17:27:20.809-06:002015-01-08T17:27:20.809-06:00If you would kill for your religion you're a p...If you would kill for your religion you're a psycho. If you would hurt for your God then you are a psycho. Plus: (quote start) [...] “no one really knows for sure.” Of course, if the Resurrection is true, that claim is false. So to be a good parent, you apparently have to deny the Resurrection and embrace agnosticism, treating beliefs about the afterlife as mere matters of personal preference like having a favorite color. This is just… stupid. [...] Two things: First that the argument that something is stupid is an argument Ad Personam (google it) so it's not a fair and valid argument. (Like for example: "Dont talk because you are a kid"); Second: Please find me one man that "knows for sure" I thought it was a matter of faith not proof. Nobody knows for sure is the truth. You can talk about Jesus all you want just please speak the truth. "Nobody knows for sure" is true. The truth hurts. But it will enlighten you.Jack The Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17110012514369096790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-79686378680567745082015-01-08T15:40:17.921-06:002015-01-08T15:40:17.921-06:00I think the problem here is that you are missing t...I think the problem here is that you are missing the comic's entire point. It is not, as you say, an anti-religious comic. Its title is "How to suck at your Religion", not "How Religion sucks". Its purpose is not to denounce religion, but to denounce misinterpretation and misuse of religion.eefjehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16510637797380653455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-37733414514772756142015-01-08T15:22:49.909-06:002015-01-08T15:22:49.909-06:0010. the reason most of the panel in the comic are ...10. the reason most of the panel in the comic are targeted at Christians is that that is the religion the author is most familiar with. the panel in question is clearly targeted at fundamentalist Muslims. so i dont get where your coming from with the fear thing.<br /><br />11. he doesn't conflate it, he just expands the question. and he nowhere 'condemns' Religion, he just criticizes certain forms of it. the title should make it clear he is not confronting religion as a whole.<br /><br />12. he says good religion is where you make the world a better place without negatively affecting others.<br /><br />if religion is a coping method for an individual, that individual would not be aware of that fact, or else the coping method wouldn't work. hes saying that's what it is even though you don't know it. <br />I think its a part of humanities evolution towards god. towards widespread recognition, in what ever cultural terms,that the kingdom of Heaven is indeed at hand. right here, right now, awaiting us. 'tis not in the sky, for the birds would proceed us, etc. BTW have you read the Gospel of Thomas? its gooood stuff. <br /><br />"But the other view is that religion describes something, and Someone, utterly real… the very ground and sustenance of reality, in fact. What’s more, knowledge of this Truth is the most important knowledge we could possess – the only knowledge that makes an eternal difference, while all other knowledge fleets or fades" <br /><br />Beautiful!! I agree wholeheartedly.<br /><br />But i don't believe all that fairy tale stuff.. this i know, i see directly. water to wine and parting seas, you can see why people doubt this stuff right? <br />God has spoken to people of ALL cultures. how could he send someone to hell that hasn't had the opportunity to discover x religion? He told the truth to people of all cultures. But he was limited by the concepts available to the people he spoke too. That's why it came out different, and all the versions don't agree on everything. <br /><br />Love you All, and Love others regardless of beliefs, orientation or anything. Just LOVE, No qualifier!<br /><br />(wow, i think that was a bit long.)Siebavdlianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209831533005094094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-61807029578617340142015-01-08T15:22:21.222-06:002015-01-08T15:22:21.222-06:005. a simple substitution as follows. "i love ...5. a simple substitution as follows. "i love Buddhism, Buddhism is my favorite religion"<br />"no, your favorite religion is Christianity"... etc<br />Problem is that anyone who was raised by their local religion will defend and reason for it and believe it as passionately as a member of any other. Krishna is just as real and important to a Hindu as Christ is to you. as hard as it would be to get you to change is how hard it would be to get them to change. <br /><br />6. he is talking for example at religious people condemning homosexuality. i think when Christians think gay they think gay-sex. homosexuality is a biological fact in many species. its seems to be a population control method of nature. Something a person has no choice about. yest they have the choice weather to have gay sex but no choice in weather they fall in love with people of the same of different sex. so long as they're in a loving relationship, what they do behind closed doors is their business alone.<br /><br />7. " The author specifically advocates.." no he does not. its just on joke on the fact that people want what they cant have, and the more you push something on people, the less they want it. instead of tell you to believe in god or go to hell (which is the most visible and loudest (even tho not the most sophisticated) version of Christianity to most atheists. it is they view they are bombarded with daily, and are damn tired of hearing). just Love God as you do and don't be afraid to let them see you loving god, then when they see you they'll be all like " hey that looks pretty good, can i try?"<br /><br />8. basically if your going to believe in one religion, you have to right for making fun of any others, because from an atheist view they all look equally stupid and obviously make believe fairy tales (yeah that's what most religion looks like to me, well not stupid but, out dated. important for a certain phase of social evolution, and an incubator for spiritual truth, which has absolutely nothing to do with belief.)<br /><br />9. Fair, but we could argue over where life starts to the end of the earth, and get no closer to the truth of it. there is no specific point. there are point where fetal life resembles a single cell organism, a lizard, a monkey etc. as it recapitulates evolution. ending a life at the single cell stage is probably only a little worse than killing an amoeba (because of the fetuses potential) <br />And many people do vote based on their religion, or the idiosyncratic position of their pastor. <br />Siebavdlianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209831533005094094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-35749560069428854502015-01-08T15:20:50.026-06:002015-01-08T15:20:50.026-06:00This guy is arguing against the forms of religion ...This guy is arguing against the forms of religion he has been exposed too.<br />Your version might be reasonable, but most Christians i have met have not training in reason. I'm sure its the same for him. <br /><br />(actually first some background on me. I identify as neither theist, atheist or agnostic. I know god exists but i don't think any religion has the whole truth on the matter, but that most of the big ones have a significant portion of it. oh and im very dubious of the resurrection, that scene actually seems to have been added to the bible at a later date - ie, its not original text)<br /><br />Anyway..<br />1. The church may never have declared anyone in hell, But individual Christians sure have!<br />i don't think he implies all Christians believe the bible word for word, its just that those are the ones he is arguing against. And the ones that force their beliefs on him time and time again. <br /><br />2. The article talks about the medieval mind. BS. the only reason the mind of the times would be like that is if they had been repressed. Pleanty of people at the time had a genuine desire to understand the truth of reality. and the only way to do that is to be willing to discard everything you have been told is true (by science or religion or ruling class or whatever) and think about it yourself and come up with your own conclusions. There has been genuine interest in knowing the nature of reality, not just making up for experiences, since at least the Greeks.<br /><br />3. There is no scientific consensus of when a human life starts. Different areas have different time periods which a fetus cannot be aborted after, (the fetus in the picture is well beyond any legal period for abortion.) And many of the ones used in research are still births. and this technology is not for profit but To Save Lives. so stem cell research is pro-life too. its just pro-choice as well. <br /><br />4. yeah fine, share you beliefs (on any topic, religion, politics etc.) with your children. but don't force it on them. give them the information and let them make their own choice. "so i believe in x and this is why. but some people say that doesn't make sense because y. so i say to them, X! but i just want you to think about the topic seriously and make up your own mind" Really he is confronting those who believe in x because that's what they were taught as a child and have never really re-analised it or seriously considered other alternatives. <br />Siebavdlianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209831533005094094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-43367712905524486132015-01-08T14:23:27.843-06:002015-01-08T14:23:27.843-06:00Hilarious. You were wrong TWO TIMES before you ev...Hilarious. You were wrong TWO TIMES before you even finished the first sentence. The comic was neither anti-religious, nor anti-catholic. The offense you've taken is drawn from slights fabricated completely from your own imagination. Even your own pope would agree with much of the comic, and he's smart enough to understand the meaning of the work as a whole. Isn't that what you're always telling the rest of us to do? To look at the message of the bible as a whole, rather than pick out specific parts? I would think you were better at it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01080664706439621287noreply@blogger.com