tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post7701978047068732459..comments2023-10-30T08:00:43.585-05:00Comments on Shameless Popery: How the Summa Theologica Might Address a Zombie UprisingJoe Heschmeyerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-5173256121890998752012-04-12T21:35:49.541-05:002012-04-12T21:35:49.541-05:00Absolutely love this. I shared it with one of my ...Absolutely love this. I shared it with one of my philosophy professors (whose specialty is actually St. Thomas Aquinas), and she immensely enjoyed your Thomistic argument on zombies, adding the following:<br /><br />"This is hilarious!! Thanks so much for sending it my way. <br /> <br />"Actually, St. Thomas does come close to addressing the topic of zombies. See Summa Contra Gentiles IV, Ch. 90: How Incorporeal Substances May Suffer From Bodily Fire: “For spirits are able to be bound by bodies: this can be by way of form, as the soul is bound to the human body to give it life; or it can be without being the form of a something, as the necromancers by the power of devils bind spirits by images or that sort of thing.” Now, if what he’s talking about here is a demonic spirit being bound to the body of a deceased person by necromancy, then that comes very close to a zombie. Note: Necromancers sometimes attempt to raise the dead."<br /><br />I hope you are having a blessed Easter, and thank you so much for writing; while I rarely leave comments (this is my first time, in fact), I always look forward to reading what you post. Grace and peace!<br /><br />-DavidDavidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10998468528511761986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-23929692967773500632012-04-07T13:12:37.362-05:002012-04-07T13:12:37.362-05:00So Shane on the Walking Dead was bad after all...So Shane on the Walking Dead was bad after all...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-30790508160709237822012-04-03T09:10:22.394-05:002012-04-03T09:10:22.394-05:00Ah yes... the zombie problem. What Oakes doesn'...Ah yes... the zombie problem. What Oakes doesn't get into, but what is next, is the question of why we should believe our thinking to be rational at all if materialism is right. The answer (of course): evolution naturally selecting for better thinking. But as David Chalmers puts it “[t]he process of natural selection cannot distinguish between me and my zombie twin.” Evolution is blind to our subjective experience and, thus, this answer won't work. Conclusion: we can't trust our thinking. Troubling. http://bit.ly/HbrlXKLatenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18028986769458356612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-83050051139487801742012-04-03T07:21:25.515-05:002012-04-03T07:21:25.515-05:00This is fantastic, thank you!This is fantastic, thank you!Cole Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954574912456427100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-64419167264997693332012-04-02T15:14:57.844-05:002012-04-02T15:14:57.844-05:00A friend asked whether zombies could be saved, and...A friend asked whether zombies could be saved, and asked about: <br />a) zombies arising from a living body (perhaps by a normal, living person being bitten by a zombie?) [<i>28 Days Later</i> zombies]; and <br />b) cadavers that become zombies. [Romero zombies]<br /><br />The short answer is that those who become zombies are not without hope for salvation. Let's consider each species in turn.<br /><br />For <i>28 Days Later</i> zombies, I think we have plenty of real-life parallels to look to. All sorts of things, from demonic possession to mental illness to rabies, can cause a righteous man to do all manners of evil deeds. Horrible crimes have been committed while sleepwalking, for example. <br /><br />Yet the doer of these deeds is neither legally nor morally guilty of actions over which they had no control (in the same way that St. Augustine tells the raped virgins of Rome that they preserved their virginity by not consenting). Under civil law, no one is culpable for an act done involuntarily. A British House of Lords decision captures the principle well:<br /><br />“No act is punishable if it is done involuntarily: and an involuntary act in this context – some people nowadays prefer to speak of it as ‘automatism’ – means an act which is done by the muscles without any control by the mind, such as a spasm, a reflex action or a convulsion; or an act done by a person who is not conscious of what he is doing, such as an act done whilst suffering from a concussion or whilst sleepwalking.” <br /><br /><i>Bratty v Attorney-General for Northern Ireland</i> (1963) AC 386, at 409. Something similar applies to the law of God, as well: e.g., "Mortal sin requires <i>full knowledge</i> and <i>complete consent</i>" (CCC 1859).<br /><br />So in these cases, if the poor soul still inhabits the zombified body, but is not in control of the actions his body is taken (or has his mental state so reduced that he cannot will or resist), there is <b>no moral culpability</b> for any of his actions undertaken in this state. <br /><br />For Romero zombies, the question is even simpler. Remember that death is the point at which the soul leaves the body. That a body should continue to operate as if alive is immaterial. There are plenty of lifelike things corpses do, often as a result of whatever gross thing has taken up occupancy in their body. So the undead are, from a Catholic p.o.v., dead. The Romero zombie's soul is departed, and is either in Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell.<br /><br />To use another real-life example, no organ donor is morally accountable for the things done with his body after death. (After all, organ donation is about the closest thing we have to reanimation right now, right?). So in neither case are the actions of the zombies sinful, as we understand sin.<br /><br />Thought I'd just toss this out there to see what people thought. Thanks, all, for having so much fun with this!<br /><br />-Joe<br /><br />P.S. To those who have asked about the morality of enjoying the killing of zombies, the gravity of it would probably depend on which species of zombie. But in either case, CCC 2300 says that: “The bodies of the dead must be treated with respect and charity, in faith and hope of the Resurrection.” I assume that this applies to the bodies of the <i>un</i>dead, as well.Joe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-24299025675304350202012-04-02T15:02:22.689-05:002012-04-02T15:02:22.689-05:00Fascinating. And as if I hadn't exposed mysel...Fascinating. And as if I hadn't exposed myself as a big enough nerd already, now I'm on record enjoying an article about qualia.Joe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-22990269754886252292012-04-02T15:00:45.224-05:002012-04-02T15:00:45.224-05:00Cole,
Good question. Let's start with what he...Cole,<br /><br />Good question. Let's start with what he <i>does</i> say. <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1079.htm" rel="nofollow">First</a>:<br /><br />“The appetitive and intellectual powers are different genera of powers in the soul, by reason of the different formalities of their objects. But the appetitive power agrees partly with the intellectual power and partly with the sensitive in its mode of operation either through a corporeal organ or without it: for appetite follows apprehension. And in this way Augustine puts the will in the mind; and the Philosopher, in the reason (<i>De Anima</i> iii, 9).”<br /><br />And <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1099.htm" rel="nofollow">second</a>:<br /><br />“Because in proportion to other animals man has naturally a larger brain. Wherefore it is natural, on account of the considerable humidity of the brain in children, that the nerves which are instruments of movement, should not be apt for moving the limbs. On the other hand, no Catholic doubts it possible for a child to have, by Divine power, the use of its limbs immediately after birth.” <br /><br />So, from this, we can see that (1) the brain is naturally connected to our appetites, and (2) the brain is moist. Take that as you will. (Yes, I'm taking those wildly out of context).<br /><br />I.X.,<br /><br />JoeJoe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-36521621725960595002012-04-02T14:53:54.395-05:002012-04-02T14:53:54.395-05:00My friend wants to know what the Angelic Doctor ha...My friend wants to know what the Angelic Doctor has to say on the subject of why zombies eat brains specifically - why not a nice haunch?Cole Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13954574912456427100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-52566783503210183492012-04-02T11:31:23.807-05:002012-04-02T11:31:23.807-05:00Almost perfect ;)
So... Zombies don't get spe...Almost perfect ;)<br /><br />So... Zombies don't get special treatment in the murder department? I should probably stop playing Plants vs. Zombies then!G Lainghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09736882298990748417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-29654039750731425652012-04-02T07:25:26.912-05:002012-04-02T07:25:26.912-05:00I love this!I love this!Gail Finkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02117490028494416722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-82111191920068131922012-04-01T18:31:26.894-05:002012-04-01T18:31:26.894-05:00It's not as april fool's as you think
htt...It's not as april fool's as you think<br /><br />http://www.firstthings.com/article/2007/01/what-do-zombies-think-25Fr. Damien Merrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17821062504905546925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-85936950680909226842012-04-01T18:24:18.199-05:002012-04-01T18:24:18.199-05:00Joe, this was simply brilliant ... a great little ...Joe, this was simply brilliant ... a great little tongue-in-cheek piece for April Fool's.Anthony S. Laynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14807873592896092136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-46506806984738811882012-04-01T18:17:29.369-05:002012-04-01T18:17:29.369-05:00Father,
Thanks! I must confess, I am sort of sh...Father, <br /><br />Thanks! I must confess, I am sort of shocked that you haven't already written on this subject. It seems up your alley, as a "priest at the end of the world."<br /><br />I.X.,<br /><br />JoeJoe Heschmeyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06998682878420098470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-91943906336455379042012-04-01T18:15:48.844-05:002012-04-01T18:15:48.844-05:00Amazing post! The ideas of zombies has always hor...Amazing post! The ideas of zombies has always horrified Christians. Because it is the resurrection without glorified bodies. Keep up the good work Joe!Fr. Damien Merrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17821062504905546925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-15874460055916703112012-04-01T16:18:12.897-05:002012-04-01T16:18:12.897-05:00I'm confused, if the worst should happen, name...I'm confused, if the worst should happen, namely that I'm bitten and zombified, can I still receive absolution through the Sacrament of Reconciliation?Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17183885721554928211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-55912204834650476632012-04-01T15:59:43.393-05:002012-04-01T15:59:43.393-05:00"human bodies not under the control of a rati..."human bodies not under the control of a rational mind."<br />Politicians?DWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09262587917905900259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-19030218571448761922012-04-01T15:44:20.536-05:002012-04-01T15:44:20.536-05:00The Summa is the closest thing to scripture that i...The Summa is the closest thing to scripture that is not scripture.donn4billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10241326439528303571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-32022422635124897612012-04-01T15:39:22.596-05:002012-04-01T15:39:22.596-05:00It isn't in Latin...
The question of zombie i...It isn't in Latin...<br /><br />The question of zombie is interesting. The idea is basically about the moral implications of human bodies not under the control of a rational mind.<br /><br />It is probably clear that pleasure in violence, even lawful violence, is not good. But using necessary violence to protect oneself or others is lawful to the extent it is necessary.<br /><br /><b>On the contrary, It is written (Exodus 22:18): "Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live"; and (Psalm 100:8): "In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land."<br /><br />I answer that, As stated above (Article 1), it is lawful to kill dumb animals, in so far as they are naturally directed to man's use, as the imperfect is directed to the perfect. Now every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part is naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we observe that if the health of the whole body demands the excision of a member, through its being decayed or infectious to the other members, it will be both praiseworthy and advantageous to have it cut away. Now every individual person is compared to the whole community, as part to whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since "a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump" (1 Corinthians 5:6).<br /><br />On the contrary, It is written (Exodus 22:2): "If a thief be found breaking into a house or undermining it, and be wounded so as to die; he that slew him shall not be guilty of blood." Now it is much more lawful to defend one's life than one's house. Therefore neither is a man guilty of murder if he kill another in defense of his own life. <br /><br />I answer that, Nothing hinders one act from having two effects, only one of which is intended, while the other is beside the intention. Now moral acts take their species according to what is intended, and not according to what is beside the intention, since this is accidental as explained above (43, 3; I-II, 12, 1). Accordingly the act of self-defense may have two effects, one is the saving of one's life, the other is the slaying of the aggressor. Therefore this act, since one's intention is to save one's own life, is not unlawful, seeing that it is natural to everything to keep itself in "being," as far as possible. And yet, though proceeding from a good intention, an act may be rendered unlawful, if it be out of proportion to the end. Wherefore if a man, in self-defense, uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repel force with moderation his defense will be lawful, because according to the jurists [Cap. Significasti, De Homicid. volunt. vel casual.], "it is lawful to repel force by force, provided one does not exceed the limits of a blameless defense." Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense in order to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's. But as it is unlawful to take a man's life, except for the public authority acting for the common good, as stated above (Article 3), it is not lawful for a man to intend killing a man in self-defense, except for such as have public authority, who while intending to kill a man in self-defense, refer this to the public good, as in the case of a soldier fighting against the foe, and in the minister of the judge struggling with robbers, although even these sin if they be moved by private animosity.<br /></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-12148954716804111982012-04-01T14:41:42.887-05:002012-04-01T14:41:42.887-05:00How do you kill zombies, then?
Perhaps brain them...How do you kill zombies, then?<br /><br />Perhaps brain them with a Bible. Cause there's nothing like allegory :P<br /><br />Speaking of which, does Dante's living-dead Pope-o-simony count as a demon possession, zombie, or both? I mean, he is dead, but not physically...Montaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15855928733382673100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-63082241208778957352012-04-01T14:31:21.235-05:002012-04-01T14:31:21.235-05:00Perhaps one day I will understand Aquanis. I doub...Perhaps one day I will understand Aquanis. I doubt it though.<br /><br />Now Anselm--that is genius.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915100833433055951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-62686252874878243892012-04-01T11:40:12.154-05:002012-04-01T11:40:12.154-05:00Rule #1: Cardio.Rule #1: Cardio.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10893212093736380961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-3155835230337645982012-04-01T09:58:44.941-05:002012-04-01T09:58:44.941-05:00I had to share this with those I know who are into...I had to share this with those I know who are into the zombie thing.David Wanathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17989208170153778829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-59211846973806201432012-04-01T09:14:57.691-05:002012-04-01T09:14:57.691-05:00You've mastered the style of Aquinas almost pe...You've mastered the style of Aquinas almost perfectly! I wonder though, would brain-bashing or skewering or incinerating a Zombie constitute as murder?G Lainghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09736882298990748417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4999044146888823867.post-77742715201628507122012-04-01T08:40:47.029-05:002012-04-01T08:40:47.029-05:00Brilliant!Brilliant!spraffmeisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02651988079265709782noreply@blogger.com